Jennifer Van Syckle  0:00  
When you think of a person with an eating disorder, you probably are not thinking of someone in a large body. We're going to rejoin Yvette as she shares her stories with us. I know when we recorded this, I had my eyes opened several times. So I think you're going to enjoy it. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Talking Health in the 406 where we're one community under the Big Sky. I'm your host Jennifer Van Syckle longtime healthcare worker turned health educator

Yvette Yarber  0:36  
first treatment center that I went to was weighing and measuring no no flour, no sugar and that just made me binge I started I started drinking right after that place. And it's it's, it's it works for people. I'm not saying that it doesn't work. But for me with trauma around food and around dieting, it was it was not a good thing. But those are other than that first one, every other place that I went to was built on the model that you have to force yourself to eat I went to this one place where they forced you and I this was directly post gastric bypass. And because it was sort of I was the only person who was in a larger body there is sort of mainly anorexics, all anorexics and some believe it and you were forced to eat sugar solely in the morning. So sugar was something that you were forced to eat, I was forced to eat fast food. Because it what they're trying to do is to desensitize people who have bad foods, you know, people anorexics, and it's a real thing. It's a real deadly thing. And I understand why they did it. They did serve some people with that kind of a disorder. But for someone like me who I don't have foods that I'm scared of, it's not an issue. I'm not scared of sugar I don't like I don't count calories, I don't do any of those things. It doesn't mean that I don't have an eating disorder. What that means is that I have different needs to serve my eating disorder. And dietitians up until this this gentleman that I worked with in LA, his name is David Dr. David Wiss, he started an organization called wise mind nutrition. And he has he has a philosophy in terms of, of dietitians that is, is workable for people with eating disorders on the entire spectrum. And I'd love to put his information too because that's his vehicle, accessible via zoom as well.

Jennifer Van Syckle  2:17  
Speaking of dieticians, I mean, how, what is his philosophy? I mean, how is he different from the main

Yvette Yarber  2:24  
struggle, or, um, he's being in and out of eating disorder treatments, so much the dieticians that I've worked with in the nutritionist that I've worked with, have been educated by insurance codes come up and tell him I wasn't able to work with one because it was just this constant push pull between, you know, I weighed 400 pounds, I don't need to eat fast food, I don't need to eat sugar, cereal in the morning, I just had a gastric bypass, I cannot eat all of this food, I can't do it. And so there's a real black and white thinking in the eating disorder community that, that, you know, dieting is bad, and it is bad. I agree with that dieting doesn't work. And that can exist at the same time that someone in a larger body is going to have slightly different needs than someone who is underweight. So when I met when I met David Wiss,  he was able to navigate all of those things. He specializes in people with mental illness, with eating disorder with trauma around food. And he also understands that there are things that are important about, you know, a food plan. You know, having a food plan does not necessarily translate to the diet. It's difficult. It's for someone like me, that's a difficult distinction to make. And he was able to to, again, with the safe environment, provide a safe, shame free environment to talk about food, and no foods or not this this food is not a bad food. But here are your nutrition goals. It's such a delicate balance, and I've never found anyone who was able to achieve that other than Him. That's awesome.

Jennifer Van Syckle  3:56  
And does he have a website? He does? Okay, yeah, we will share that on our website so that everybody can access that and learn more about him for sure. And so, let's go back to when you finally you've got in the pool, and you started moving with all those other mermaids and misfit mermaids. And so Swimming was kind of your, your ticket, your ticket to wellness,

Yvette Yarber  4:19  
I take it really was Well I grew up next to Fort Peck. So it was my joy. Anyway, I love the water. But um, for the first time that I can ever remember I could be in my body before I got into the pool, I used to set the timer and on my computer and then just do some kind of a movement, some kind of something in my chair for a minute, like just be in my body for one minute. And then that was it. And then but with Eagle Mount, the water the fact that everybody there has the same, maybe not the same exact issues, but has has lived through difficulties with their physical body. And so I felt at home and I got in the water and all of a sudden It didn't hurt to move, that taking gravity out of the equation allowed me to be in my body without pain. And once I was able to be in my body without pain, I started moving in and realize the way my body moves, you know, the way my body actually works, oh, wow, if I do this, this muscle works like this. Or if I do this, this, this works. And I've been swimming there for, I don't know, maybe six months prior to COVID. So however long that was, and then with COVID, there weren't too many people who swim. So I felt like I had such a great opportunity to get into my body and to make my physical body is sacred as everything else in my life. as sacred as my music is sacred as my writing is my brain is my heart. And I, you know, now I regularly swim a mile a day, five days a week, I do, sometimes more. I do classes. And I've also discovered what my objective is in this world in this incarnation. And I know that I want to help people who have been sort of set aside by the eating disorder community, and, and picked up gleefully by a diet industry. That is a huge $72 billion diet industry and also picked up by a medical community that doesn't quite understand that having an eating disorder is not necessarily the same as obesity, you know that if you have obesity with an eating disorder, it's a different animal, I get messages every once in a while from people who have been to treatment with over the years. And this one lady that that specifically is, in my mind, now, we were about the same mobility, we weighed the same treatment, the last time I went to treatment, but she stopped moving and I started. And now she's in a nursing home at 50 years old, and, you know, can't roll over in bed by herself. And she didn't have good insurance, she didn't have access to the services that I had, or access to the family support that I had, that's important to have a huge infrastructure around you, she didn't have that. And I used to put up on my Facebook page of a candle on a black thing every time on a black background every time someone I went to treatment with died. And I stopped doing that I stopped doing it because it was just so depressing. It was awful. And I was glad to see at the last DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Statistical Manual, which is where they house the insurance codes for mental illness, was happy to see that finally, in the DSM five, they added a code for binge eating disorder prior, there was only anorexia, bulimia and eating disorder not otherwise specified. And so I was able to treatment under nos, because I had such good Cadillac insurance, but I was always the only person or one of two people of size in these eating disorder facilities. And so what has been happening over the years is that people like me, people in large size bodies with eating disorders, we didn't really have a venue. I mean, we didn't have an access to care, because there was no insurance code. In the eating disorder community, the medical community wants to medicate. So do a surgical intervention. And we will get we're just dying. And so people are obesity is a is a big problem in this country. It's it's a huge problem. And unfortunately, if you have an eating disorder, manipulating your food is not the way to go to point from point A to point B, it just makes you sicker.

Jennifer Van Syckle  8:34  
Wow. Yeah. And you're right. I noticed in Montana, I pulled some stats before our podcasts and 32%. report being self report being obese in Montana, which, from 2016, that's up from about 26%. You know, so you're right. It's it is a huge problem in our country. And it's getting worse. We're lucky up north here and that, you know, we may not have quite the statistics of some southern states, but you hit on a really good point. When people think eating disorder, they instantly think of bulimia and anorexia. They don't think about the whole opposite end of the spectrum. Is there anywhere in Montana that a person can go if I if I have an eating disorder, and I am obese? What do I do? I mean, where do I well,

Yvette Yarber  9:20  
I, I mean, I can there are a handful of places in this country that I would recommend someone in a large body with an eating disorder to go to the place I went to LA Breathe Life Healing Center is one of them. I don't know of any places here in Montana. That doesn't mean they're not there. That just means that I have been under treatment for enough years that I don't need. I don't need to access those services. I'm not sure what's available in Montana. There wasn't anything when I was looking.

Jennifer Van Syckle  9:46  
It's unfortunately being a rural actually, we're technically we're considered a frontier state to step beyond rural, there is a lot that's missing in our state as far as health care. We have a lot available but unfortunately we do have to travel a lot. But you also hit on another interesting point with the medical community in that. And we've seen it since COVID. You know, where you used to have 20 minutes with a patient, now you have 15. Now, all of a sudden, you're double booked. And that physician has seven minutes with you seven minutes with somebody else. I mean, I can see where it would be really hard if I have somebody Yeah. And a large body walk through my door, and I'm a physician. Is this just overweight, severe being severely overweight? Obese? Is it because we do have a fundamental eating disorder? How, you know, minutes to diagnose that? That's yeah,

Yvette Yarber  10:35  
I think that, you know, when I walk through the door of a medical professional, when I walk through that door, what they see no matter what symptoms I'm coming there with is is fat. That is, that's what they see. And it's not their fault. It's what they're trained for my sister's, a doctor in Bozeman, and we've had conversations about this. She graduated from MSU. And before she went to med school, her undergrad is from MSU. And she, you know, they don't they, they just there's not education, about eating disorders from undergrad all the way through medical school. They're, they're given. You know, they're given a tract. And and I would love to, to initiate a bridge to initiate the construction of a bridge between the eating disorder community in the medical community s, especially if you're in a large body, because someone who is in a large body, you walk into a doctor's office, and what they see is the fact that there are serious comorbidities associated with being in a large body. This is true. Okay, this is true. But if you're presenting with an eating disorder, rather than just some because there are people who I know people, normies people who just eat too much and don't move enough, that's it. That's it. There's not there's not trauma around food, they don't have any body image issues. There's no drama, drama, drama is just like, oh, I need to eat, move more and eat less. That's it. But those aren't my people. And those aren't the people who are being left to the wayside. And I so desperately want to start a conversation between the eating disorder community and the medical community about this about this issue.

Jennifer Van Syckle  12:12  
I like your term normies. That's cute. That's which it's hard because I know, I could see where there would be judgment tossed around. Are you just lazy? You're just lazy. Start moving. Come on, you know, eat some more veggies. What's your deal?

Yvette Yarber  12:26  
Well, even now, I had the aquatics director of the pool told me I was probably in better shape than any of the people there in terms of the staff, the lifeguards, but I walk into a doctor's office who doesn't know me. And the first thing they see is the fact that my BMI is way, way higher than normal. And that's another thing I would like to change that is such an inaccurate depiction of health. For someone like me who's got many pounds of loose skin after losing hundreds of pounds, I've got a lot of loose skin that they have to take off. That impacts the BMI. I swim a mile to two, sometimes two miles a day, five days a week, I have a very muscular, very strong that impacts the BMI. And so it's not a proper indication of health and wellness. And, you know, for again, for some people it is it's fine. But there's a huge population that is not being served right now. Huge. And it breaks my heart because I get a lot of calls from people. I'm involved in it in a 12 step food program. And I get a lot of calls from people from all over the country all over the world just got a call from a lady from Greece, saying that I just can't get past the fact that there's nothing good about me unless I'm skinny. And this is I mean, this is this is a 60 year old woman who is professional and successful, but has always had this low grade hatred of herself because she doesn't fit a social sexual societal norm. And that's, that's so damaging. And that the downside for people of sizes, we're so ashamed that we don't speak up. We don't say, you know, we don't we don't advocate for ourselves, because we believe what everyone's telling us. We believe it because that's what we tell ourselves. You're fat, you're disgusting, you're not worth anything. You won't be happy unless you lose weight. I don't care how smart you are. I don't care how talented you are, how kind compassionate if you're, if you don't take up less space, you are worthless. And that is not an exaggeration. That's a it's a real thing. You know, I've had I've had friends that have have killed themselves over this, like literally couldn't take the pressure of the shame any more. And I get that. I mean, I was so close. And I just I'm so blessed because of my insurance and my family and my community and I have you know, have strong ties. And also I can't stress enough. The fact that healthy movement is crucial Sure to getting over an eating disorder crucial. And if you're when you go to meetings, when you go to eating disorder meetings or treatment or anything like that, you know, the emphasis even in the eating disorder community is on exercising less, because the modalities, the treat, that the modalities are built around insurance codes. And if you have anorexia and bulimia, than exercise, bulimia is a real thing, people, people purge with exercise. And so when you go to treatment, they make you stop moving, stop moving. And so for someone like me, who can't be in my body, or not used to not be able to be in my body, that was that was harmful. And now that it's in the DSM, I think some places are starting to move toward the model of healthy movement, there's a long way to go that place and the place in LA was so crucial for me, simply because I was able to without shame, to move my body move, move, get your brain working, right. And again, with the you know, we hold trauma in our bodies, we hold it in the in the individual in our flesh. And if you just sit there and hate yourself year after year after year, and not move some of that energy through your body, it's you're not it's not going to be a successful endeavor, you're going to end up like my friend in a nursing home not able to toilet herself discarded by the eating disorder community, picked up by a diet industry, that's entire, I mean, think about what other industry is, is built on a product that doesn't work built on. I mean, that's what their money is that their money is made from the fact that number one, we hate our body so much, that the only industry that's bigger than the diet industry is the defense of the United States. That industry is the only larger industry than the diet industry that is, is built on how much we hate our bodies, and how unsuccessful their product is. I mean, if they had a successful product, we wouldn't need x, y, and z, this diet, that diet, this supplement, this movement, this, you know this whatever,

right and certain medications to train, but you know, you want to lose weight. Here's here's a medication, here's a pill. Yeah, and yeah, and I can, I can see that I can see where Yeah, put this supplement into your drink instead. Because this will help you lose weight instead of going out and walking during your 15 minute break

by this keto product or, or by this sugar free product. That's about killing us to this isn't the only reason that we have obesity in the United States. This is one small one. I mean, there are other reasons I mean, socio economics are a part of it. Some people can't afford to eat healthfully. There are lots of different reasons that don't involve me. But my little section, my little section of the world has to do with people in with eating disorders. In larger bodies, I would love to see some statistics, we don't even have like in the eating disorder world, the statistics we have are and the people you go to treatment with our young, thin and white girls, young, thin white girls. And so we don't know how many people in the Latino community in the in the African American community have eating disorders. We know self reported, they're extremely high and I can send some information a friend of mine just did a presentation on eating disorders in the LGBTQ plus community. And she's got some really interesting statistics I can send you guys so we know that in the DSM. Right now, eating disorder has the highest mortality rate of any mental illness. We know that by far. What is not included in that statistic is people in larger bodies, because we have anorexia and the anorexia and bulimia statistics, what we have not included in there the mortality rates for people in larger bodies that we get lumped into obesity, but really, if we added mortality statistics of people in larger bodies, that number would just blow your mind.

Jennifer Van Syckle  18:55  
Well, and I suspect to that those people are getting pulled into Oh type two diabetes you know, or Oh, heart attack, you know exactly what's not clad, classify them as this, we're gonna put them under this known more chronic disease that we have out there. And what's really mind blowing to me going back to your treatment was the one size fits all approach this, you know, even though we're talking black and white types of eating disorders, yeah, let's not talk movement and with anything, it needs to be all encompassing. You know, like you said, how you got spiritual support, family support, let's move let's talk food. That's it's mind blowing. We'll put it that way. Hopefully not. To the listener to the point where it feels hopeless. Because I know there is, you know, there is help out there with these years support groups that you go to your 12 Step programs, whatever you want to call them. Do we have? Do we have those all over Montana? Do you know are they can somebody pick up the phone locally and find support.

Yvette Yarber  19:55  
One of the one good thing about COVID is that it gave access via zoom To a lot of things that that we didn't have access before, there are literally any kind of, of 12 Step meeting that you want every single day of the week, every day, any kind of whatever type of, of eating disorder 12 STEP program that you resonate with any of them, they're available, I go to a meeting almost every day. And with

Jennifer Van Syckle  20:20  
Eagle Mount that is an entity dedicated, I'm not super familiar with it not living in Bozeman towards people with with disabilities,

Yvette Yarber  20:27  
providing recreational activities for people with disabilities. Okay, and so you see, they've got a cancer support group in there people recovering from cancer, just various different types of disabilities, but obesity, mobility, impacted obesity is one of the things on their mission statement. It's one of the things that they serve when I was actually I spoke with the development director and the executive director last week, when they heard about this podcast, and I'm gonna get emotional just talking about it. But they said that this is an opening like the the Eagle Mount is willing to be a door opening for people who are too ashamed to move. And so we're we're starting some classes. We're doing a test group right now, for trying to put together a test group of people in larger bodies, we're calling it the person of size movement group. And the Aquatics directors working with me personally right now to shape shift some exercises that work with people with flesh on their bodies, because that's not a that's also a difficulty, you know, you go to a water aerobics or any kind of an aerobics group, and it's formulated for smaller people, you know, there's certain exercises that are harmful for us, my physical therapist puts it, he said you had that you have a tissue proximity issue, we can't do this exercise. Just here, there's too much flesh here. But that's not a shameful thing. Just to say that and laugh and not be ashamed of it to say, Oh, wow, it's a tissue proximity issue, let's let's shape shift this into something that's not shameful, but still usable. And Eagle Mount is willing to do that, it's willing to be that and it's, that's such a sacred thing. I think maybe, because it is a Lagoona misfit mermaids, that everybody's coming in, in there from a position of having been in the shadows and had to work their way out of the shadows. You know, they've faced the dark night of their soul, whether it's the cancer group and imminent death, or whatever, you know, or a lady with polio, or, you know, whatever it is, it's the people who are there have faced those demons and understand what it's like to come out the other end. And so that in and of itself, makes it a sacred and safe place. And that's the most important thing for people like me to feel safe. And to be able to find movement in a way that is separated from shame. And so I'm so grateful, I can't even tell you guys how grateful I am for that, that place. I mean, just for the first time in my life, moving my body, in a swimming suit in front of people, I even led classes, I volunteer for Eagle Mount as well. And I lead classes. And you know, I've got my fat rolls and my cellulite and my stretch marks and everything. And I can go through a whole class without one time thinking about how I juggle wrong this way. That is

Jennifer Van Syckle  23:17  
that is truly awesome. And I have a sneaking suspicion. It's just the tip of the iceberg. I mean, there's just so much that can be so much that can be done and so much that I first see you doing Yvette as well, for sure.

Yvette Yarber  23:28  
Look at you guys. Look at what you're doing here. This is a door opening and Montana's such a concern that my family has been here, I'm eight generations. I know what this this this state is about. And we're not about, you know, new ideas. Generally. We don't we're not like forefront on cutting edge ideas. But the fact that that the state is sponsoring a podcast that is talking about some of these things, it makes me so proud.

Jennifer Van Syckle  23:56  
Oh, awesome. Well, and I think too, you know, our tagline is one community under the Big Sky and I feel like if somebody was in Circle or Glasgow or Plentywood you name it anywhere and they're facing the same issues as you I feel like they could call their local their county health department they could call you know, whatever organization is helping people with even disabilities in town. Here's my situation help me can you help me and I know there would be people there to help maybe not aquatics because not all towns are blessed with swimming pools year round, that's for sure. But you know, even just movement or hey, let me hear online let's do it. A little aerobics class right here in your bedroom as we as we exercise something just chair aerobics. Yeah, just start.

Yvette Yarber  24:46  
It is good for it's changing. You can go on social media, I do a lot of research and you know, to try to build an exercise program for people who are not used to moving and so there are people out there and larger bodies, even on YouTube that doesn't cost anything you can just type into YouTube, body movement, obesity, anything like that and just start, start small until you can find something bigger. That's awesome.

Jennifer Van Syckle  25:10  
Yeah. And you're right, I do see I do see the change the shift. Do you think of like actresses like Melissa McCarthy and women that are they're embracing their body. And people love that people absolutely love it.

Yvette Yarber  25:23  
They don't get tired of being ashamed of themselves. You know, it's so interesting to me, I look look at different representations of the sacred feminine. I've done a lot of work with the sacred feminine. And I have a theory that that the huge amount of eating disorder, eating disorders in women are sort of a missed an imbalance in the sacred feminine and anything that we can do to embrace that. And so I started researching, okay, what is sacred feminine look like at different times throughout history? And one of the some of the earliest statues of the sacred feminine, are women who look like me. I mean, their rolls are natural fat is natural, and having a hips that support childbirth, that's natural, you know, your breasts sag as you get older, why can't Why can't that be? Norm? Why can't Why do we there's so many different ways that we're, we have available to us to be ashamed. And that makes me angry. You're right, you're

Jennifer Van Syckle  26:21  
absolutely right. Sociologists could well probably have written books on it. I'm, I'm pretty sure. But

Yvette Yarber  26:28  
yeah, I'm studying a couple of them. There's some really good books out there really good one, the body is not an apology is I started to a group and we're going through that that particular book, there are body image, there are people out there who are doing some just amazing stuff, but that's one that I would recommend to anyone. Um,

Jennifer Van Syckle  26:49  
so you read a book group for body image of Oh, yeah, club, a couple of

Yvette Yarber  26:53  
them, not a book club, I started a group, just because there's, there's just not it's not out there for people in the mainstream quite yet. And so I have a couple of groups actually.

Jennifer Van Syckle  27:04  
Awesome. Well, if you happen to do those on our online at all, we would love to share the links to those and put it out there in case there's other people that would be interested, but well, that I think you shared a fabulous story. But I mean, if there's anything else you want to share, but we sure appreciate you eye opening experience, for sure. A lot that just of light was shed that, you know, I think most of us don't realize needed to be shed. So yeah. Oh, thank

Yvette Yarber  27:31  
you. Thank you for having me. Here. It just, I said this before, I'm so proud of Montana, so proud that we have a state government that is allowing for this conversation to happen, because it's not happening in too many other places. And I am, I love my state. I love my state so much. I'm so proud of Montana. I love my family. And it's just, this is a good place to have a conversation begin.

Jennifer Van Syckle  27:55  
Awesome. Yeah, it is an it is a great state. You're absolutely right. And we might not set the trends on a lot. But maybe this can be something at least we can support our own in our own state a little bit more. So. Yes, ma'am. Thank you so much to have that for being willing to share her story with us and with all of you. If you would like more information on some of the resources and information that was given today. Please visit our website at Talkinghealthinthe406.mt.gov. And thank you for joining us for another episode of talking health in the 406 where we're one community under the Big Sky. Until next time, take care

Transcribed by https://otter.ai